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Post by rogerm on Apr 26, 2009 8:26:34 GMT
if you look at the poll question it says
Is admin right in getting rid of Off Topic and the pictures thread?
it doesn't take long for a squabble to start about racism, crime and goodness knows what I think they were right to do what they've done for these very reasons
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Post by quadbod on Apr 26, 2009 8:54:04 GMT
Worth remembering when posting a topic on a forum....
Opinions are like a***holes - Everybody has one. .
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Post by grainman on Apr 26, 2009 9:11:10 GMT
Any discussion that provides differing opinions will have both sides explaining why they think their opinion is correct. I'm afraid its called debate and the moment we stiffle debate by claiming racism and such is the day we lose our right to free speech.
Yes, you may not like what someone has to say but to tell them they have no right to say it is indefensible.
Again I don't think saying that some migrants are causing trouble in gatherings in some towns is bigotry. Its an observation. There are many young English kids causing trouble in our local town but no one bats an eyelid when that statement is made. Bigotry is the complete intolerance of any creed / beleif that differs from ones own. However I don't think that Lee or the vast majority of others have any intolerance against the nationality of the person, just an intolerance to the actions these group of people are committing.
It is not racist or bigotted to say a group of Poles or Muslims are causing trouble in a town, it becomes racist when yousay they are causing trouble because they are Poles and Muslims. There is a world of difference and some people need to remember this and not be sucked into the New Labour way of stiffling any debate on sensitive matters by tarring people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2009 10:54:59 GMT
Any discussion that provides differing opinions will have both sides explaining why they think their opinion is correct. I'm afraid its called debate and the moment we stiffle debate by claiming racism and such is the day we lose our right to free speech. Yes, you may not like what someone has to say but to tell them they have no right to say it is indefensible. Again I don't think saying that some migrants are causing trouble in gatherings in some towns is bigotry. Its an observation. There are many young English kids causing trouble in our local town but no one bats an eyelid when that statement is made. Bigotry is the complete intolerance of any creed / beleif that differs from ones own. However I don't think that Lee or the vast majority of others have any intolerance against the nationality of the person, just an intolerance to the actions these group of people are committing. It is not racist or bigotted to say a group of Poles or Muslims are causing trouble in a town, it becomes racist when yousay they are causing trouble because they are Poles and Muslims. There is a world of difference and some people need to remember this and not be sucked into the New Labour way of stiffling any debate on sensitive matters by tarring people. spot on, grainman.
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Post by phil on Apr 26, 2009 20:15:39 GMT
if you look at the poll question it says Is admin right in getting rid of Off Topic and the pictures thread? it doesn't take long for a squabble to start about racism, crime and goodness knows whatI think they were right to do what they've done for these very reasons Just nine posts to be precise!.........before someone started hurling allegations at Lee about Racist comments!! I suppose the easiest way to avoid tussles like this is to ignore the comments?? But accusing someone of making racist comments or insighting racial hatred is pretty serious stuff in my book.....and must not go unchallenged!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 17:03:31 GMT
An interesting American point of view.
Michael Richards, better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld, does make a good point. This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...
Someone finally said it... How many are actually paying attention to this?
"There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman' .. And that's OK.
But when I call you, removed, Kike, Towel head, Sand-removed, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink ... You call me a racist. You say that Whites commit a lot of violence against you... So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi. You have the NAACP. You have BET...
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists. If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' our, Lives we'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??
A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.
If we had a college fund that only gave white students Scholarships. You know we'd be racists.
There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US . Yet if there were 'White colleges' That would be a racist college..
In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us Racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride, you call us racist!
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white Police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.
I am proud... But you call me a racist.
Why is it that only whites can be racists?
There is nothing improper about this E-mail.
Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have lost most of OUR RIGHTS in This Country. We won't stand up for ourselves!
BE PROUD TO BE WHITE! It's not a crime yet .... But getting real close!
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Post by basilseal on Apr 27, 2009 20:50:01 GMT
That email is another spoof col: www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.aspapparently, the actor in question made a racist tirade against a heckler in the audiance at his show, repeatedly referring to him as a ni***r, which i think by most people's standards was uncalled for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 21:42:12 GMT
Spoof or not, i didn't hear you disagree with the sentiment expressed.
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Post by phil on Apr 27, 2009 21:51:33 GMT
Absolutely spot on col......had the same e-mail a while back! It sums up what a huge majority of people in the us have probably been thinking for years?
And in the UK we have the NBPA...how racist is that?
Something that has been playing on my mind, since the incident of the police officer swiping that woman protester with his gloves & then having to use his baton during the G20 protests, is this...what would have happened had the police officer involved been black or Asian??? There is little doubt in my mind that the whole thing would have been completely reversed...with the woman probably being accused of racist abuse & the officer involved being the injured party?? What do the rest of you think?
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Post by tomtom on Apr 28, 2009 16:25:30 GMT
i think you are bang on Phil!
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Post by fendtdriver on May 1, 2009 6:01:03 GMT
Oh my god not more race issues It's yourself will be sharpening his solicitor. For what it's worth i completely agree that double standards are the cause of more race relations issues than plain race hatred as i believe in modern society the minority that are racist and bigotted will face huge adversity from "normal" society for putting there heads above teh parapet so in the main they belt up (which is probably best)
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Post by basilseal on May 1, 2009 11:57:28 GMT
Absolutely spot on col......had the same e-mail a while back! It sums up what a huge majority of people in the us have probably been thinking for years? And in the UK we have the NBPA...how racist is that? Something that has been playing on my mind, since the incident of the police officer swiping that woman protester with his gloves & then having to use his baton during the G20 protests, is this...what would have happened had the police officer involved been black or Asian??? There is little doubt in my mind that the whole thing would have been completely reversed...with the woman probably being accused of racist abuse & the officer involved being the injured party?? What do the rest of you think? I think that's the most bizarre straw man argument i've heard in a long while. Firstly, how is the black Police Officers' Association racist? Secondly, what difference would the race of an officer make to our perceptions of their actions? For a start, the hippies and trustafarians protesting at the G20 seem a rather unlikely group to be making racist remarks to black policemen, but so what if they did? I doesn't matter what race the policmen in the case you referred to was, because no right thinking person would think it acceptable for a policemen to respond to verbal abuse with physical violence, whatever their race. That isn't their job. It is the job of the police to uphold and enforce the law. Not to meet out punishment to people that they, and you, do not approve of. If a person was to make a racist ramark to a policeman, then the correct action would be for him to arrest that person for breach of the peace or incitement, not to mete out instant retribution with his baton. If it's ok for the police to use unnecessary violence against one group because we don't approve of them, then obviously this works both ways, and it's ok for them to use violence on you or a member of your family. I'm astounded that people are still failing to grasp this very simply point given the stark example given to us in the death of Ian Tomlinson, a man who died after being assaulted by a serving police officer at the G20 protests, and who had no involvment in the demonstration. He was an entirely innocent man who had the misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it could just have easily have been any one of us in his place.
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Post by raiderz on May 1, 2009 12:02:40 GMT
Firstly, how is the black Police Officers' Association racist? Can't see a white Police Officers' Association anywhere It sends the wrong signals out to the extremists. Are white police officers allowed to join?
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Post by basilseal on May 1, 2009 14:15:27 GMT
Firstly, how is the black Police Officers' Association racist? Can't see a white Police Officers' Association anywhere ? It's called the Freemasons. The aim of the NBPA is to promote the retention and recruitment of black and ethnic staff to the police. Robert Peel's initial vision for the police force was it would be 'of the people, for the people', and the idea that there are a proportional number of black officers to the number of black people in the uk as a whole hardly seems like an unreasonable aim. The idea being to promote community relations between minority groups who might otherwise feel misunderstood or prejudiced against by an exclusively white police force. As for the need for a white police officers' association, do you think there are similar problems with the recruitment and retention of white police officers?
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Post by fendtdriver on May 1, 2009 17:59:09 GMT
Firstly, how is the black Police Officers' Association racist? Can't see a white Police Officers' Association anywhere It sends the wrong signals out to the extremists. Are white police officers allowed to join? They started one on The Bill ages ago LOL
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