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Post by stockslave on Jul 9, 2009 4:29:42 GMT
The situation in China is quite different to that in the UK, but one thing the Chinese and British police (and anywhere else for that matter) have in common is that they are employed by the government of the day to obey orders and 'uphold' the law, and there the similarity ends. China is a large multi-ethnic nation of around 2 billion peple of numerous religious and tribal sects. The fact that their police are sorting out some Muslim dissent, is not really that relevant. Probably not a month goes by that they are not sorting out some uprising or other somewhere; its what they do. The media probably picked up on this because they happened to be Muslims which always makes a good story. China is not a democracy, and that is the way they keep things under control, and there's nothing we can do about that except maybe stop buying their goods. Here in the UK, the police are ultimately answerable to us the electorate, although it might not sometimes seem that way. But I do think that they genuinely try and uphold the law. If they appear to be biased in favour of some minority groups (e.g. travellers) then it is probably because they are following the orders of their political masters, who in turn represent us the electorate. If our politicians are not reflecting the majority view, there is something seriously amiss in our demcratic system.In many respects, we the electors are to blame. We live in a country where people have fought wars and died (and are still doing so today) for a free and democratic society, yet when there is an election, less than around 40% of people bother to vote. If we feel that we in this country no longer have a proper democracy, it is down to our own apathy. I hear many people say they don't vote because they can't be bothered, or they're too busy and it won't make any difference anyway. But I think anyone who wants to share in the benefits of a free and democratic society and maintain their British citizenship should by law turn up to vote; if they can't be bothered, then they should forfeit the benefits. Sorry if its wandered off topic a bit, but there you go folks. What do you mean "IF" ?? Surely it is blatantly obvious that a considerable number of our MP's only represent themselves...or their parties set agenda! I totally agree with Phil, politics has become a gravy train! I did exercise my right to vote but stood in the booth for at least ten minutes and very seriously considered submitting a spoilt paper, as I felt there was very little choice between the candidates. Until there is openness and honesty instead of corruptness and spin, there will be apathy with the general public - why bother to vote when their all as bad as one another!
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Post by spike on Jul 9, 2009 5:30:36 GMT
What do you mean "IF" ?? Surely it is blatantly obvious that a considerable number of our MP's only represent themselves...or their parties set agenda! I totally agree with Phil, politics has become a gravy train! I did exercise my right to vote but stood in the booth for at least ten minutes and very seriously considered submitting a spoilt paper, as I felt there was very little choice between the candidates. Until there is openness and honesty instead of corruptness and spin, there will be apathy with the general public - why bother to vote when their all as bad as one another! that is as may be but this country is still one of the best in the world and too not vote disrespects those who fought for right to do so.
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Post by stockslave on Jul 9, 2009 8:07:54 GMT
I totally agree with Phil, politics has become a gravy train! I did exercise my right to vote but stood in the booth for at least ten minutes and very seriously considered submitting a spoilt paper, as I felt there was very little choice between the candidates. Until there is openness and honesty instead of corruptness and spin, there will be apathy with the general public - why bother to vote when their all as bad as one another! that is as may be but this country is still one of the best in the world and too not vote disrespects those who fought for right to do so. Ahh, but they didn't fight for the right to see a tin pot, self centred, power mad, greedy parliament ruling over us (or should I say lording) they fought for honesty, integrity and the right to be heard. I don't observe much listening to the people going on.
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Post by tj on Jul 9, 2009 9:33:23 GMT
Ahh, but they didn't fight for the right to see a tin pot, self centred, power mad, greedy parliament ruling over us (or should I say lording) they fought for honesty, integrity and the right to be heard. I don't observe much listening to the people going on. - stockslaveThe only way to get a responsible government that represents the majority of the people is via the ballot box. This is why it puzzles me why so many people voice their dissatisfaction with the way things are run, but yet less than half of them bother to vote. An apathetic, largely non participating electorate will never have a representative government, and extreme, corrupt and unrepresentative influences will always prevail.
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Post by phil on Jul 9, 2009 10:23:39 GMT
I totally agree with Phil, politics has become a gravy train! I did exercise my right to vote but stood in the booth for at least ten minutes and very seriously considered submitting a spoilt paper, as I felt there was very little choice between the candidates. Until there is openness and honesty instead of corruptness and spin, there will be apathy with the general public - why bother to vote when their all as bad as one another! that is as may be but this country is still one of the best in the world and too not vote disrespects those who fought for right to do so.I understand the point you make spike! But did my grandfather fight in the Somerset light infantry during WW1.....so I could sit here today reading & seeing news reports of how our MP's tried fiddling their expense claims? or how the Government & MP's refuse to listed to the people that put them where they are? Or how Landowners are told what they can or can't do with, or on their own land!
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Post by basilseal on Jul 9, 2009 10:39:06 GMT
So what's your solution then Phil? apart from sending the darkies home and getting the police to give people exercising their democratic rights a good dusting, obviously.
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Post by phil on Jul 9, 2009 11:04:59 GMT
So what's your solution then Phil? apart from sending the darkies home and getting the police to give people exercising their democratic rights a good dusting, obviously. Most of the immigrants that have recently swamped this country, & a hell of a lot of the illegal immigrants we have here are from Europe...and have fair skin!
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Post by spike on Jul 9, 2009 15:01:21 GMT
tj has basically replied for me about half of the folk dont bother to vote so are in no position to complain.im lucky in being up north i vote snp not because i want the break up of the uk but have grudgingly been won over by the excellent job they have done
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Post by tj on Jul 9, 2009 15:52:05 GMT
I totally agree with Phil, politics has become a gravy train! I did exercise my right to vote but stood in the booth for at least ten minutes and very seriously considered submitting a spoilt paper, as I felt there was very little choice between the candidates. Until there is openness and honesty instead of corruptness and spin, there will be apathy with the general public - why bother to vote when their all as bad as one another! - stockslave There is a kind of 'chicken and egg' situation here Stockslave. If people don't vote because they don't trust the politicians, then they will not get voted out, and bad government will continue to reign supreme. If the all of the electorate make their opinions known through the ballot box, even if they submit spoilt papers, then it will have a positive effect. The only way you will get rid of them is through the ballot box. Not exercising the right to vote will solve nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2009 18:23:59 GMT
snp not because i want the break up of the uk but have grudgingly been won over by the excellent job they have done Hmmm didn't remember about croft houses when making Home Reports compulsory and gold plated the English/Welsh version so that anyone wanting to move south has to pay for a survey both ends Also seem legally able to back date legislation when they feel like it.............
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Post by spike on Jul 9, 2009 18:37:41 GMT
snp not because i want the break up of the uk but have grudgingly been won over by the excellent job they have done Hmmm didn't remember about croft houses when making Home Reports compulsory and gold plated the English/Welsh version so that anyone wanting to move south has to pay for a survey both ends Also seem legally able to back date legislation when they feel like it............. never mind you will soon be down south and Gordon and his pals will have control of all aspects of your life :olabour after a decade in power banned fox hunting.snp a couple of years in banned smoking in pubs and such,scrapped university fees,scrapped parking fees at hospitals my fave aberdeen council told the billionaire we dont want your money or jobs think of the dunes.alex salmond waded in feck the dunes and feck the eberdonan council twots.gives us the dough and jobs.now that is quality leadership
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2009 19:40:24 GMT
So what's your solution then Phil? apart from sending the darkies home and getting the police to give people exercising their democratic rights a good dusting, obviously. I would like to hear Phils solution too. I would use the army to control the travelers because the police cant/wont - not anything to do with ethnic grounds but because this group of people prove over and over that they do not value our rules or morals and will not bother to abide by them. However in my experience, most (obviously with exceptions) Poles, French, Indian, Austrialian German etc do live by and value our morals and so cant see a proplem with them unless of course it is important to you to see only fair little white kids when you drive past a school playground. My main complaint with this country is that for my tast it is far too overcrowded. How to takle this I dont know but I think sending home imigrants would be only the tip of the iceburg - especialy if it meant that all British ex pats were sent home. Lee s thread was about "discusting Poles". I heard breifly at about the same time a story of 3 people in Norfolk sent to jail for burning a 15 year old alive. Is there another thread I missed "Discusting Norfolk people"? I have spent my whole life thus far hearing crap from my dad about how the English are better than every one else. Actually he doesnt like Northerners eigher, so its even Southern English. My cz fiancee is apalled to drive through towns at 7pm and see young kids being sick on the pavement already and has never seen such a thing in the cz rep. Oh yes, these kids are Brits. Mark
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Post by phil on Jul 9, 2009 21:36:05 GMT
Before a solution can be found….We need a quick fix! So, call a general election & get ride of the current useless mob!
I don’t have the solution….but I do have some suggestions that may, or may not, make this country a better place to live?
Give Landowners/tenants the right to evict travellers from their land…by any means that is deemed reasonable!
Controlled immigration! Use some sort of quota system (only so many from each country allowed in per year) And this may sound harsh…but those that can speak & understand English should take priority! We could build new schools & Hospitals…or significantly increase the state pension with the sort of money some councils have to pay out for interpreters! Speed up the Processing of asylum seekers…and if their case is not 100% genuine send them home! Remove all the illegal immigrants we have in this country!
Stop benefits to the unemployed (unemployable) after six months…then make them do all of these jobs people say British workers won’t do, paying them the same as they would get on the dole!! The employer then pay’s them the same…& takes tax off them at 10%?
Bring back discipline…in the home & the class room! How in hells name can you expect to bring up children properly in this nanny state??
Equal right should mean just that… If same sex couples want to have a civil ceremony & go on honeymoon it is up to them & their choice! But do not criminalise people & businesses that would choice not to have these couples share a room under their roof! And do not revoke the license of an establishment that chooses not to allow same sex couples to have civil ceremonies at that establishment!
Make prisons a place of punishment…not a place for recreation, learning how to be better & more successful criminals, and becoming a drug addict! Life in Prison should mean just that
Oh, and make it a criminal offence to breast feed babies in public! Call me a prude if you like……………………but it could upset the poofs!
I am sure there are other members who will have some input for this…so it’s over to you.
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Post by franmar on Jul 10, 2009 7:31:45 GMT
Phil i said once you should be P.M. but three points i would like to suggest:- Immigrants should not be given benefits for the first six months The unemployed capable of work who refuse three jobs stop all benefits. prisons if you are sentenced to six years thats what you should serve not three.
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Post by scooby on Jul 10, 2009 7:59:07 GMT
I think problems that the U.K. faces can be divided into 3 main sections.
1. By far the most important is the breakdown of family life, and the consequent lack of respect and responsibility within society. 50% of parents don't make any kind of formal commitment. Some of our youngsters are feral. Some are really great. This is largely due to their upbringing. The two are linked. Some "families" have three generations that haven't worked. We have the highest abortion rate and underage pregnancy rate in Europe. 10% of the unemployed haven't worked since 1997.
Those prominent in society are seen to be generally less than upright and it sets a bad example to others. And I don't just mean MPs. I mean SOME teachers, lawyers, doctors, police, social workers etc. I could go on.
And the unintelligent amongst us figure out that if the above section of society can get away with it they think they can as well. It sets a bad example.
2. We have become a very crowded island and it makes for social unrest. This is caused by, in the main, the lack of a sensible immigration policy, and, as outlined above, irresponsible reproduction by those people resident here. Even if there weren't an immigration issue the fact that it is perceived that there is one unsettles the populace.
3. Economic mayhem. For years we have been able to borrow (and hence buy) anything we wanted. We have a generation who think that they are entitled to anything that they fancy. There has been a total lack of prudence for a long long time. Credit card companies have been thrusting debt down our collective throats. Need a student loan ? No problem. Like that new car ? No problem. Why would you give anyone a 125% mortgage ? And it's all come home to roost. And instead of being able to borrow at say 1.5% over base it's more like 3.5%, especially if it's for those who want to make a committment and buy a house and start a family.
All the above is a potted version of what, in my view, constitutes the main problem areas. But I have only touched on the subject. It would probably fill a book if written out in full but writing a book wouldn't help. What we need, urgently, is integrity in leadership. And we're a long way from that.
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